Time Running Short on BYOB Petition Drive
Opponents will form a political action committee if the question makes it onto the ballot for the Nov. 8 election.
The signature count is coming down to the wire.
Proponents of an initiative to allow "bring your own bottle" (BYOB) restaurants in this dry town have very little time to finish collecting 747 valid signatures of registered Ocean City voters on a petition that calls for a Nov. 8 public vote on the issue.
In order for it to be included on the ballot for the Nov. 8 election, City Clerk Linda MacIntyre must submit the public question to the county clerk by Sept. 6 (a Saturday). Before she does that, she must verify all the signatures on the petition, a process she has 20 calendar days to complete. If she finds inconsistencies, the petitioners would have 10 days to address them. Then MacIntyre would have to verify any changes.
The variables are too many to pin down an exact deadline for the BYOB petitioners to submit their signatures. But counting 30 calendar days back from Sept. 6 (20 for verification of signatures and 10 to address any potential issues) yields a rough deadline of Saturday, Aug. 7.
MacIntyre said Monday that her entire staff is prepared to work on the verification process, but because her office has never handled a petition of this size and because she has no idea how many potentially questionable signatures the petition might include, she can't estimate how long the process will take -- it could be shorter than 20 days.
One of the chief proponents of the BYOB petition, Bill McGinnity, owner of Cousin's Restaurant, refused Sunday to say exactly how many signatures he and his committee have collected.
But McGinnity, an Ocean City native who now lives in Linwood and cannot vote in the referendum, added supporters continue to collect signatures this week and they feel certain they will have enough valid signatures to trigger a referendum.
But Richard Stanislaw, a major opponent of the BYOB initiative, doubts there will be enough.
"This is a specific ordinance that includes booze on the boardwalk. We don't need that. But we would be opposed to any BYOB. You don't mess with success. This place is different," said Stanislaw, a city resident for nine years and visitor for 50.
If there are enough valid names collected, a political action committee will be formed to raise money and organize voters opposed to the proposal, Stanislaw added.
"I'm thinking they won't have enough signatures," Stanislaw, president of the Ocean City Tabernacle, said after a Sunday Tabernacle service.
Stanislaw said the Tabernacle's charter requires upholding the town's founding principles, including temperance.
"Those early guys meant no alcohol when they said that," he said, alluding to the Methodist ministers who founded the city.
"The city's working fine the way it is, that's the bottom line," Stanislaw said.
The Tabernacle has distributed anti-BYOB signs -- now ordered to be removed from lawns because they violate a city ordinance.
The Tabernacle has also devoted a website page to opposing BYOBs. The site urges several actions, including posting lawn signs and contacting city politicians, who have already preemptively opposed the BYOB option.
Stanislaw also said on Sunday that after he told one petition supporter, Michael Carlin, that he was "disappointed" that Carlin was supporting the petition, Carlin quit the committee.
Carlin had previously said he quit after he was confronted at the Tabernacle and also at St. Peter's Methodist Church in early June, but he had declined to say who had spoken to him at either institution. Stanislaw said he was "careful" to do no more than express his disappointment in Carlin. He said he did not know who else may have spoken to Carlin, nor what, if anything, they said.
Stanislaw acknowledged that non-profit religious organizations such as the Tabernacle are not allowed to substantially involve themselves in political activities under federal guidelines.
"But we're not doing much," other than distributing signs opposing changing Ocean City and hosting the anti-BYOB webpage, said Stanislaw.
"A PAC would be formed if we did more. But it would not be us directly. We would encourage the formation of a political action committee," should enough signatures be validated to trigger an election, he said.
A PAC is necessary because the Tabernacle, an untaxed religious organization under Internal Revenue Service guidelines, is prohibited from "substantial lobbying."
Known as a 501(c) (3) organization, organizations such as the Tabernacle "may engage in some lobbying, but too much lobbying activity risks loss of tax-exempt status," according to IRS guidelines.
The federal guidelines continue:
"A church or religious organization will be regarded as attempting to influence legislation if it contacts, or urges the public to contact, members or employees of a legislative body for the purpose of proposing, supporting, or opposing legislation, or if the organization advocates the adoption or rejection of legislation.
"Churches and religious organizations may, however, involve themselves in issues of public policy without the activity being considered as lobbying. For example, churches may conduct educational meetings, prepare and distribute educational materials, or otherwise consider public policy issues in an educational manner without jeopardizing their tax-exempt status."
McGinnity said supporters, many of them members of the city's restaurant association, feel "targeted" by the actions of opponents, including a call to boycott restaurants supporting the proposed change.
"I've thought about wearing a T-shirt with a bullseye on my chest," he said, but he added he does not believe the boycott has worked.
Sharon Hoffman of Captain Bob's Seafood on 55th Street, one of the places collecting signatures, isn't so sure.
She said she's missing a few regular customers, but she's unsure if that's due to a dismal economy or the boycott.
And as to collecting signatures, she said it "is a slow process" that is "shrugging along."
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Christopher Abbott
7:38 am on Tuesday, August 2, 2011
OC...the wettest dry town in America and so hypocritical! There was enough booze on the beach on the 4th of July to choke a horse, but the "powers -to-be" looked the other way....yet BYO is forbidden in restaurants??
People return to OC year after year because of memories, the beach and the B-walk, first and foremost, not because it's dry.
Remember the Blue Laws??? Repeal was going to send us all into Hell in a hand basket.
The Tabernacle's calling is to deliver the "Good News",,, the Gospel, not political banners.
glwood57
7:50 am on Tuesday, August 2, 2011
beer on the beach so true. just look the other way.....not just 4th of July everyday!
Rick
8:28 am on Tuesday, August 2, 2011
I see tons of people drinking beer on the beach. Just count those red cups.
beth achuff
3:50 pm on Tuesday, August 2, 2011
I find it interesting when no the " no alchohol means no alchohol" is brought up since the Yacht Club, The Fishing club, and The Boat House club and the VFW all serve "achohol"! I am sure none of these members are against the byob? Of course they feel since they are drinking here in Ocean City outside of there homes it is ok for everyone else to do so.
tax payer
7:42 am on Tuesday, August 2, 2011
funny how so many who have only lived in OC for less than 10 years but boast of visiting for 50... I have visited many places and would never consider putting my ideas of how that place should run.. and again I find only the ones against the BYOB are putting signs up and bad mouthing everything.. i seems to show who has class..and this idea of its the churchs duty to fight this and tell people they should not support the idea, what ever happend to God loves you know matter what.. I a sad to read these comments and again said about the underlying hate some have.
Patrick Piriano
9:44 am on Tuesday, August 2, 2011
Bart, I have lived in the same house on Asbury Ave., for 52+ years, Worked in the Bar and Rest. Business for 30 + years, I am not doing the sign thing, and I hate the whole Boycott thing, I am anti BYOB, now please tell me why my opinion doesnt mean anythng? Now what? I will fight forever against BYOB with my dying breath, and I am a OC resident forever. I started school at the building where the police station is. Now tell me, I dont count! By the way... Bart, I am not religous at all, and this has nothing to do with that in my mind at all.
glwood57
7:46 am on Tuesday, August 2, 2011
I'v been a resident of Ocean City since 1986, & I think this a measure that should be passed. I frequent Mildred's in Strathmere, a BYOB and hardly a roudy restaurant, Upper Township doesn't seem to have an issue with the problems that BYOB's "cause". Let us return to the Blue Laws of the 80's, only restaurants open on Sunday, Mayor Gillian would not want to return to those days, Sunday is probably the busiest day on the boardwalk. The real issue is alcohol, maybe all alcohol should be banned, delivered, carried in, or for private parties, not allowed, checkpoint on the entrances. Now there is a revenue maker! How would that work? what would that do for our "family town" or "Greatest Family Resort" tag line. The limits set forth in the ordinence are a reasonable amount of alcohol to consume at a meal. Have all of the protesters read the entire ordinence, I think not, Should the Tabernacle be so involved? Let the voters decide without the fear of the religion, entering into the mix.
Rick
8:26 am on Tuesday, August 2, 2011
I thought those founders said " No commerce on Sunday, also. The Tabernacle is a political org., plain and simple. They hand out political propaganda and raise money to support political issues. Let's not even mention how nasty they are when you oppose them. Not a shining example of Christianity in any form of the word.
Rick
8:35 am on Tuesday, August 2, 2011
When I registered to vote, they asked me if I was a Democrat, Republican, or Tabernacle.
happycamper
8:44 am on Wednesday, August 3, 2011
Rick---lol---you are the limit.
Jim Houck
10:19 am on Tuesday, August 2, 2011
The lunacy of these arguments in these point-counterpoint posts speaks poorly of the posters. At least provide a logical well thought out argument. Geez !!!!!
Jim
10:42 am on Tuesday, August 2, 2011
Re: Jim Houck's post: I don't see "lunacy" in these posts; merely intense feelings one way or the other. I think lunacy comes in when one feels strongly about something, says nothing, then complains bitterly at an outcome that displeases them. Personally, I am opposed to byob. I am most concerned with people from out of town telling us here in OC what's best for us. The absurdity of "a fine dining experience" in some of the places promoting byob is stunning. Lets see what happens and hope cooler heads prevail.
Jim Arthur
Rick
5:16 pm on Tuesday, August 2, 2011
Jim, name one fine dining establishment that does not serve alcohol. I can't even think of one bad restaurant that doesn't, so what do expect the restaurants to be like in this town.
Your argument is a self fulfilling prophesy
Patrick Piriano
10:42 am on Tuesday, August 2, 2011
Ok Jim, I will speak Ad nauseam about everything, I will give many in depth statements about the matter at hand, talk about everything I feel and how the masses of the city residents feel ( THE VOTING RESIDENTS ). How would that work for you; Jim? I live my life, now dedicated with a single goal... Jim, making sure BYOB never happens. Where do you want me to start, Jim? I can speak on this subject all day long, Jim. I realy do know of what I speak! :) Do you want me to start with my main argument about how this doesnt work as resturants need "Turnover"? Or how this is realy going to hurt servers? Or how the way the thing is writen, is just bizzare? Just let me know? Please? I will start typing now! i ready, Jim! :)
Jim
10:54 am on Tuesday, August 2, 2011
Patrick, go for it. Now's the time for the people to speak out.
Jim Arthur
Jim Houck
10:55 am on Tuesday, August 2, 2011
Pat - It's the posts that bring in religion, Christianity, beach drinking, blue laws, damning the Tabernacle, and all of the extraneous b/s (much of it coming from non-residents) which have absolutely nothing to do with the issue that damage the argument on both sides. Admittedly, none of these are your posts & I'm actually on your side of the argument.
Patrick Piriano
11:02 am on Tuesday, August 2, 2011
Sorry Jim Houck, The Tabernacle and the other Christianity things have nothing to do with the reason I am opposed to BYOB, nothing at all with the old Blue Laws, beach Drinking, and drunks wandering the streets. Sorry I put you in the mix.
Rick
4:53 pm on Tuesday, August 2, 2011
Hey Pat, How are you? It doesn't look like any of us are changing anyones opinion.
Rodger Gottlieb
2:21 pm on Tuesday, August 2, 2011
Proponents of BYOB frame the issue by saying, "What's wrong with a couple being able to enjoy a nice glass of wine with dinner?" And the answer to that is nothing. But the issue is not that simple. There are always a few bad apples who would abuse the privilege and spoil it for everyone. One of Ocean City's strongest selling points is the absence of drunken, rowdy behavior on the beach and boardwalk. It's not called "America's Greatest Family Resort" for nothing. It's what defines Ocean City and gives the town its unique charm and appeal. Sure, BYOB may be a benefit to a handful of restaurant owners. But it's not in the best interests of the business community or the residents because it would jeopardize those qualities that make Ocean City so appealing to visitors and homeowners.
Linda Barnes
3:34 pm on Tuesday, August 2, 2011
Roger Gottlieb put it beautifully. What makes Ocean City so wonderful is not having
to worry about drawing the rowdy youth who drink and make life miserable for all on the boardwalk and dangerous on the streets. Yes we still have some but start with BYOB and I promise it will go from there. It always does. I enjoy wine with dinner
and have no problem with a drink but I know this is the one place I can go that it is controlled and that certain "element" of humanity will not be welcome.
Rick
5:07 pm on Tuesday, August 2, 2011
Think back to when you were young. Did you go out to a restaurant to party? I know I never did. I spent as little cash as I could on food and saved my money for the bar or club. The youth go to bars and nightclubs. Dinner becomes entertainment for older people. I am sure educated minds could come up with a law that would prevent that.
From all the posts, the one thing everyone agrees on is, we don't want the Scenario you describe.
Rick
4:51 pm on Tuesday, August 2, 2011
Your argument is simple. The vast majority should have their right or privilege (however you want to put it) restricted to prevent the few from abusing the right. How about this, we start enforcing the laws on the books pertaining to public drinking on the beach and elsewhere. Since we all seem to agree it’s going on, let’s demand our police force put a stop to it.
If I was so against drinking in restaurants in my own town, I would like to think that I would adhere to those same values in someone else’s town.
Jim
5:39 pm on Tuesday, August 2, 2011
Rick asks what fine dining establishment doesn't serve alcohol. That's been one of the largest concerns in this entire byob debate...the serving of alcohol. All of us who are and were servers in restaurants know that diners tend to "camp" over their drinks. There are fewer tables turning, fewer diners served and less tip money at the end of the night. The restaurant owners who are promoting this stuff are not stupid. In the short run they realize they will be serving fewer meals. The only way any of this makes sense is to look at the big picture. Selling alcohol generates big money. Selling alcohol in their establishments can be their only logical motivation. Many of the owners pro byob are off islanders. Our welfare and the future of this town are not their priority. Their motivation is profit, plain and simple.
Patrick Piriano
6:00 pm on Tuesday, August 2, 2011
Rick, still fighting the good fight, you are right about one thing... We are not changing anyones mind! :) It seems that a new article pops up every couple of weeks to get people all worked up again. Anti BYOB forever! :) I just wish this damn thing would be over with already, one way or the other.
Rick
7:58 pm on Tuesday, August 2, 2011
I here you Pat, Jim, they are asking for a middle ground. I personally believe it’s more controllable if they were selling it. It’s easier to handle how much a customer drinks and what is in the bottle. I would just like to see some decent restaurants in town, Similar to what’s over the bridges. Alcohol, I believe, is the only way that ever happens. Don’t get me wrong, I don’t want a bar or nightclub in town AT ALL.
vic
5:56 pm on Tuesday, August 2, 2011
i like to have a martini before my meal when i go out to a restaurant. why should i patronize any restaurant in ocean city just because they offer byob? i firmly believe that the restaurant owners who are proposing byob are seriously fooling themselves. improve your menus, improve your furnishings, match your dishes and utensils. then maybe you will be able to compete with the restaurants on the mainland, and you can stop your crying.
the restaurants in ocean city that went out of business did not close because they were not doing enough business. they closed because developers made them an offer they chose not to refuse.
Linda Barnes
7:36 pm on Tuesday, August 2, 2011
Totally agree. Look at Watson's. l That was the best meal in town. Packed every night with lines down the street. What is there now?? Guess!
Rick
7:13 am on Wednesday, August 3, 2011
I dare you to try to buy a property like Watson's today, and make it in the food business without alcohol sales. Goood Luck!!! You won't make it. You couldn't even cover the note on the property let alone the taxes.
Duffer
7:47 am on Wednesday, August 3, 2011
A place like Watson's wouldn't make it here now even if they could serve so its a moot point. Its a tough business and its even harder if you have to pay a fortune for the real estate and you have no-place for patrons to park. Good luck with that in this town.
Rick
4:12 pm on Wednesday, August 3, 2011
Are you saying that OC has the highest real estate values in South Jersey. NOT. There seems to be other shore towns that have nice restaurants.
Rick Bernardini
7:28 pm on Tuesday, August 2, 2011
Well, there's no more diversity on any ideas for or against on this issue. BUT, what happened to the fire house having a permit as a private entity to serve alcohol? Is it true or not?
Patrick Piriano
10:12 am on Wednesday, August 3, 2011
Rick Bernardini, any "Private Entity" can have any private party, serve all the booze they want, no permet is required. The most important part is, NOT OPEN TO THE PUBLIC IN ANY WAY!, No charge for any food served, any resturant in town can do the same thing, as long as they do not purchase said booze (Purchased by said event organizer is fine), charge for food or of course booze, be totaly private, and in no, I MEAN NO!! way open to the public. You could even do it at McDonalds, as long as it was not open to the public in any way! No Permit required!
Patrick Piriano
9:38 pm on Wednesday, August 3, 2011
When I said no charge for food, I didnt mean to imply that tickets could not be sold to an event, like a funraiser or charity, like a few resturants in town do.
Rick
4:05 pm on Wednesday, August 3, 2011
Pat, Please tell me you don't consider the Fire Dept or the firehouse to be private. PLLLEEEAASSSEEEE.
Patrick Piriano
9:35 pm on Wednesday, August 3, 2011
I didnt say the Firehouse or Fire Dept. was private at all, it is a Public building and entity and they are city employee's not volunter's as some other towns. I have never seen booze at any event at the Ocean City Fire Dept., I know other towns rent out fire halls for party's and such, but I am pretty sure they are volunter fire company's. As far as I know, the city doesnt rent out our fire company's.
Ryan Simmons
10:22 pm on Wednesday, August 3, 2011
A month and a half ago I cared about this a lot. Since then absolutely nothing has changed on these message boards. Same folks, same opinions. With that said, I guess I'll offer my final word on the matter. I like to be thorough in my writing, so I've posted to my own site: http://imaginationsimmons.com/2011/06/27/final-word-on-ocnj-byob-a-matter-of-trust/
Good luck to both sides. <3 democracy
Tom Repici
9:53 am on Thursday, August 4, 2011
Well said Ryan ... well said!