Post-Sandy Q&A Session: Live Discussion Board
Look for live updates from the event 9:30 a.m. to 11 a.m. Saturday, then participate in a discussion.
Photos
Join us as we share real-time updates from a post-Sandy Q&A session with a panel consisting of city officials, Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA) representatives, insurance agents and real estate industry experts from 9:30 a.m. to 11 a.m. Saturday, Jan 26.
The live event will be held at the Ocean City Free Public Library. But news from the event will be updated in the discussion board above.
(Editor's note: I'll do my best to transcribe and summarize what is being said as it happens. And my apologies in advance for typos, omissions and other bits of confusion. I'll ask readers to wait until the session is over at 11 a.m. to ask questions. At that point, I'll have a little more time to describe the news from the event.)
Readers can post comments, ask questions and upload photos and videos to this live chat after 11 a.m.
We'll open the discussion board at 9:30 a.m. Saturday — when the event starts. To see previous entries, scroll up.
The event is described as follows by the sponsoring Ocean City Community Association:
Two-and-a-half months after Superstorm Sandy, Ocean City residents and property owners have many more questions than answers as to the restoration or reconstruction of their properties. Questions include:
- How long will the city continue providing dumpsters and storm-related curbside waste collection?
- When will recycling return to previous separation requirements?
- What evidence of decontamination will be required by rental agencies and/or the city from rental property owners?
- What restoration work requires licensed contractors and/or permits from the city?
- By when must an insurance claim be filed, and how is the payout calculated?
- What are the effects of the city’s latest "base flood elevation" ordinance?
- How will our property taxes be affected by the costs associated with the storm?
Ocean City residents and property owners are encouraged to attend and participate in the discussion.
Slated to participate:
- Ocean City Mayor Jay Gillian
- Ocean City Business Administrator Michael Dattilo
- Ocean City Finance Director Frank Donato
- FEMA subject matter experts
- President of the Ocean City Board of Realtors Kevin Redmond
- Representatives of the McMahon and Heist insurance agencies
_________
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Bill Link
9:29 am on Saturday, January 26, 2013
WXGN 90.5 FM is a non-commercial radio station in Ocean City, owned by a non-profit corporation. We serve the public by airing PSA's, announcing EAS emergencies, and working with area schools who provide us with original programming. We also air local news and weather. FEMA has turned us down, and we do not qualify for an SBA loan. Our broadcast antenna, located on the roof of the Crown Bank Building at 801 Asbury Ave. was damaged and we need it replaced. We are required by the FCC to run at no less than 85% and we can only run at 25% due to the damage. The estimated replacement cost is $10,000.00 Who can we turn to for help? Bill Link, Station Manager 609-816-5989
Ray
11:14 am on Saturday, January 26, 2013
General Question:
For a home that saw no Sandy damage, assume an advisory base flood elevation of 9 feet (1% flood), How high would the top of the first floor have to be in order to avoid raising the structure and extreme insurance premiums?
Thanks
Christina Amey
11:31 am on Saturday, January 26, 2013
Assuming an 'A' zone, the top of the floor should be at elevation 11.0' using the NAVD88 datum (not he NGVD29 datum).
Christina Amey
11:34 am on Saturday, January 26, 2013
That is based on complying with the city ordinance, to not raise the structure - you want the existing floor to be at least el. 9.0' NAVD88
Ray
12:10 pm on Saturday, January 26, 2013
Thanks Christina. So if I leave my bottom floor at it's current 10 foot elevation in an A zone, I will be out of compliance with OC's ordinance? Would you expect the city to require that the property be elevated to at least 11 feet?
Christina Amey
12:48 pm on Saturday, January 26, 2013
Ray, the city will not require you to raise you house unless you want to make substantial improvements (50% or more of the structures value). In your specific case, if the ABFE is el. 9.0' NAVD88 and if your current floor is el. 10' NVGD29 your floor will be about 4" below the 9'ABFE. Your flood insurance rates should be the same as the 'at flood elevation' since they tend to round a little.
Bill Potter
11:24 am on Saturday, January 26, 2013
Why did FEMA reclassify properties on the west/wetlands side of the 5600 block of West Avenue to the "V" zone when wave action is not physically possible? These properties had been in the "A" zone.
Thx.
Dean Adams
12:27 pm on Saturday, January 26, 2013
Bill,
The ABFE maps were initially released in early December 2012. The F.I.R.M. (flood insurance rate maps) were in the process of being reworked long before Hurricane Sandy. FEMA decided to release the ABFE maps as an advisory to municipalities to help aid in the surge in rebuilding projected shortly after the storm. The problem is, the ABFE maps are flawed and inaccurate as they were prepare with topographical (elevation) data only. No wave analysis or development (bulkheads, etc) were taken into account. (this is from multiple, reliable sources). The preliminary FIRMS are due to be released late summer 2013. The hope is that after further analysis, V zone areas will decrease and regulations will be more in check with what is appropriate. To date, the biggest impact of the ABFE's will be to residents who must repair, renovate or rebuild their homes if the costs are greater than 50% of the existing value. Since our Governor blanketed the state with an executive order adopting the ABFE maps. All of the aforementioned construction must comply with mapped zone criteria and elevation. This started yesterday.
DSA
1:07 pm on Saturday, January 26, 2013
My present BFe is 10 and my home elevation is 11.5. Is this ok in a A zone with 10??
Eric Sauder
12:47 am on Sunday, January 27, 2013
The City just passed an ordinance that requires 2 feet of freeboard above base flood. As ,long as you don't rennovate your home at the cost of more than 50% of its value you'll be alright with the City. Otherwise, in order to obtain a building permit, you would have to elevate your home to 12 feet (BF + 2). That's my understanding. It will be interesting to see, in light of the state's adoption of FEMA's folod advisories, if the BF+2 ordinance will be repleaed or modified.
Eric Sauder
12:49 am on Sunday, January 27, 2013
See the comment by Adams below.
John B.
1:28 pm on Saturday, January 26, 2013
There's a rumor that it was stated at the meeting that new foundations (for new homes or homes to be elevated) in the V zone must go on pilings. Can someone confirm that this is actually the requirement?
Douglas Bergen
1:32 pm on Saturday, January 26, 2013
That's what was said. The V Zone does not permit block foundations.
Dean Adams
1:35 pm on Saturday, January 26, 2013
DSA,
If your home is currently in an A-10 zone and your 1st floor is at EL +11.5 you should be ok, so long as the new FIRM's do not change. The ABFE numbers are all based on the '88 vertical datum and as far as my experience is concerned, all vertical datum used in Ocean City is '29 datum. With the 1.4' difference in datum, this means that if your home remains in a A-10 zone ('88) when the new FIRMS come out, minimum base flood elevation as we know it ('29) would become 11.4' (2' lower than your 11.5 elevation)
Dean Adams
1:37 pm on Saturday, January 26, 2013
Doug & John B.
Pilings or masonry piers are permitted in V zone construction. The key is no ENCLOSED foundations. Think bridge construction.
Christian Bickings
1:43 pm on Saturday, January 26, 2013
This must be made clear: even residents with little to no Sandy flood damage need to understand if they are below their BFE, flood insurance premiums will increase dramatically.
Insurance companies don't know new annual premium rates yet, but FEMA has warned:
"A" zone 1' below BFE: $6,000/yr
"V" zone 1' below BFE: $12,000/yr
"A" zone 2' below BFE: $8,000/yr
"V" zone 2' below BFE: $16,000/yr
"A" zone 3' below BFE: $12,000/yr
"V" zone 3' below BFE: $18,000/yr
"A" zone 4' below BFE: $14,000/yr
"V" zone 4' below BFE: $24,000/yr
OC residents carrying mortgages (like me) who can't afford to raise their homes above BFE also won't be able to afford their new insurance premiums.
Selling isn't an option because you'd loose your shirt as potential buyers would only be willing to pay the land value for your property.
That's hundreds, if not thousands, of mortgage defaults.
If all remains as is, Ocean City as a year round family community is destroyed.
This must be made known...
Edie Pepe
2:14 am on Sunday, January 27, 2013
I had been reading many comments in other publications that actually the government want to "discourage" living on barrier island, and near the water. So this is a great opportunity to destroy our property rights. If all of this is true, then we have lost our entire equity in our home, and our future will look very different for us.
John B.
1:48 pm on Saturday, January 26, 2013
Dean/Doug - I was surprised to hear about the pilings claim. I just yesterday read - in a FEMA guidance - that they do not recommend that older homes, stick built, go on concrete block (properly vented) and not on piers or pilings. Dean, I know you are well-informed on this (and enjoy a rep as one of the island best builders) and hope you are correct. I've gotten informal estimates showing and using pilings at my house is at least twice as expensive as builing a new masonry foundation (appoximately 50K v. 25K - just for the actual foundation - excluding raising, utlilities, A&E work, permitting, new porch and stairs, etc...). Thanks for the input.
John B.
1:50 pm on Saturday, January 26, 2013
correction - meant to say that the FEMA guidance says that the older stick built houses should not go on pilings but should go on vented masonry foundations...
Dean Adams
2:37 pm on Saturday, January 26, 2013
John B.
Thanks for the complement, Any V zone construction or renovation must be on a non enclosed foundation system regardless of the materials. Timber piling & stringer is most common. A zones can utilize enclosed foundations with proper venting (1 square inch for each square foot of crawl space) such as concrete block. The project is much simpler and cost effective if your older home is on a good masonry foundation and can simply be lifted, cribbed, foundation extended and building reset at a higher elevation. If you are in a V zone with masonry foundation, you are likely to move the house off the lot, rebuild the foundation entirely to V zone standards and reset the building. Much more complicated = more $$$. This is the impact to all homeowners caught in the crosshairs of the Governor's short sighted solution to a one size fits all state wide building code change. Owners who must repair or renovate greater than 50% are the most affected even if the damage created from Sandy is minimal. In some cases building assesments are so low that the cost of minor work triggers the 50% rule.
DSA
2:42 pm on Saturday, January 26, 2013
dean and christian thanx
What you dont mention is the rates if you are in compliance. There will be many homes that are. Do you know those??
Dean Adams
2:47 pm on Saturday, January 26, 2013
To the best of my knowledge, compliant homes will enjoy affordable coverage. We do know that the subsidies are being phased out at 25% a year for the next 4 years. But i don't have any data showing what the subsides are. I've been told from insurance insiders that all policies will be going to a full acturial rate, the lower the risk, the lower the premium. Like car insurance.
Christian Bickings
3:08 pm on Saturday, January 26, 2013
DSA,
Dean is correct: National Flood Insurance Program will reduce its subsidies by 25% per year for primary homeowners (to start in 2014 I've been told) until it is totally phased out. Like Dean, I don't know those subsidies are.
I sent the photo sanpshot of FEMA's predicted flood insurance premium slide to Doug (maybe he could publish), but Dean is correct again: if you are at or above your BFE, flood insurance premiums should be much more reasonable:
"A" zone at BFE: $2,000/yr
"V" zone at BFE: $8,000/yr
"A" zone 1' above BFE: $1,500/yr
"V" zone 1' above BFE: $6,000/yr
"A" zone 2' above BFE: $1,000/yr
"V" zone 2' above BFE: $4,000/yr
"A" zone 3' above BFE: $1,000/yr
"V" zone 3' above BFE: $4,000/yr
"A" zone 4' above BFE: $1,000/yr
"V" zone 4' above BFE: $4,000/yr
DSA
3:09 pm on Saturday, January 26, 2013
when my agent gave me those numbers from the elevation certificate what does the 10bfe and the 11.5 actually refer to? As i understand it the abfe relates to the top of the first livable space(???ceiling)) my home was built in 2007
Christian Bickings
3:26 pm on Saturday, January 26, 2013
Elevation for "V" zone is measured at the horizontal elevation of your lowest structural member.
Elevation for "A" zone is the measured at your finish floor.
Be cautious of the elevation datum used. All FEMA's BFE maps are in NAVD88, many elevation certificates (like mine) are in NVGD29.
And sorry... If your elevation is NVGD29, you need to subtract 1.2' (for all of OC I believe) to convert to NAVD88.
Dean Adams
3:29 pm on Saturday, January 26, 2013
DSA,
Take a look at your elevation certificate. In section B you will find your base flood elevation (likely 10.0). In Section C3, you will find line (b) "top of higher floor". This is the elevation of your lowest floor. These are your actual elevations. If your home was built in 2007, it makes sense that it would be at least a foot higher than BFE. Don't be confused with ABFE numbers. If you suffered no significant damage to your relatively new home, ABFE is irrelevant to you.
Dean Adams
3:34 pm on Saturday, January 26, 2013
Christian is correct except in that now in Ocean City, new or substaintial improvement must be at ABFE+2 according to the recently passed ordinance 12-19. And more to Christian's point about the conflicting datum used. New Christie - O.C. coupled regulations create ABFE+3.3 when factoring the '29-'88 conversion. I'd imagine the administration will be looking into revising their BFE +2 ordinance before it becomes law in a few days.
DSA
3:30 pm on Saturday, January 26, 2013
Thanx I knew that and my elvation is at 11.5 feet which should be fine. I will check the actual certificate though. Do we use the BFE or the home elevation for the comparison??(2 numbers are listed) 10 feet and 11.5 ft Sorry. Im new at this obviously
Dean Adams
3:36 pm on Saturday, January 26, 2013
DSA,
I'm confused by the question. If you are at 11.5 you are good for now. Wait till August and see what the pre FIRMS say, no need to worry until then.
DSA
3:38 pm on Saturday, January 26, 2013
Thank you very much for your help. You have very informative.
Dean Adams
4:38 pm on Saturday, January 26, 2013
You are quite welcome. Happy to help clear up confusion. But make no mistake, the current ABFE maps are very dangerous to the vitality of our City. Hopefully enough back pressure can be applied to revise those maps to more appropriate FIRM's for the future.
Sam
5:19 pm on Saturday, January 26, 2013
I most likely will not be eligible for ICC and will remain noncompliant as my elevation is at 9 ft. I cannot afford to elevate and certainly cannot afford a second loan in addition to my mortgage. If the insurance premiums listed above go into effect, I will be forced to sell at a substantial loss. I am wondering how many homeowners are in a similar situation and if we have any recourse? I agree with CB above, Ocean City will lose permanent residents and that is sad , very sad. It appears that most of us continue to have more questions than answers.
wjs
5:21 pm on Saturday, January 26, 2013
I am in the A zone and my lowest floor is 10'. garage is at 7.5'. base flood is 10'.
what does this mean for me and rates?
Dean Adams
5:48 pm on Saturday, January 26, 2013
WJS,
That is a tough question to answer until the new FIRM's are released. However, if you are currently at a 1929 Datum elevation +10. You will likely be still too low based on the ABFE's already published. I believe the lowest acceptable elevations on the ABFE's is 1988 elevation +9 which would be 1929 elevation +10.4
Christina Amey
5:49 pm on Saturday, January 26, 2013
What everyone should know is where they currently stand with the ABFE maps and what their probable insurance rates will be. Yes the maps may change, but they may not. Forget your 'old' flood zone -this is the information you need to know: 1. What the current elevation of your lowest floor is (do not count your garage, do count a sunken utility room), 2. What flood zone and elevation your property is in on the ABFE map (1%). 3. Now add 1.3 to the elevation from the ABFE map to account for datum conversion. Then subtract your floor elevation from that number. The number you are left with is the number of feet you will be below the base flood elevation (or if a negative number then above). You can then use this number along with the flood zone designation to discuss with your insurance provider the anticipated flood insurance premiums. If you need assistance to determine where you currently stand, any architect or surveyor should be able to help you.
Mel
12:55 pm on Friday, February 1, 2013
How can I get my current elevation level? I just bought the first floor of a 2 floor home in an A zone right on the beach. The house was built in 2007 and I believe the first floor (living area) is 9' high off the ground. Is 9' high off the ground the equivalent of 9' ABFE?
John B.
9:45 pm on Saturday, January 26, 2013
Dean - Thanks for all of the information.
Bob
9:47 am on Sunday, January 27, 2013
Dean Adams: Thank you for all your information. May I ask a question:
Our house was just put in the Vzone. It is a small one floor house with a masonry foundation...not pilings masonry piers. It is possible to elevate this type of house?
Thank you!
Dean Adams
10:27 am on Sunday, January 27, 2013
Bob,
Yes it is possible to raise this type of building but the degree of difficulty and scope of work is much different than raising to A zone requirements. Most likely the building must move off the foundation footprint, while the entire existing foundation is removed and rebuilt with piling or pile supported masonry piers. I would recommend waiting until at least the pre-firms are released before taking this on. Of course if your home needs "substaintial improvement" (restoration over 50% of it's assessed value) You must perform this work now under new ABFE building permit requirements.
Bob
10:45 am on Sunday, January 27, 2013
I'm bay front in the "V" zone. My house is built on pilings but I'm not sure how high. If we need to raise the elevation what would we have to do?
Dean Adams
10:55 am on Sunday, January 27, 2013
Bob,
Check out Christina Amey's post above. She provides everyone an easy method to calculate the relation of the existing (if known) lowest elevated floor to what the ABFE's want them to be. If you are currently on a timber pile and stringer foundation, the problem is the piles are already cut too short to raise the lowest horizontal structural member (the stringer). I'd advise you to contact a local Architect or Engineer experienced in V zone type construction. I'm sure they are all trying to figure out an engineered solution to this issue.
Marlin Magnet
12:58 pm on Thursday, January 31, 2013
My insurance policy states I was in AE
My Elevation certificated from 2/2001 states I'm in AO9
My appraisel from 2000 states I'm in A7
The current BFE map now states I'm in V with a BFE of 11
My first floor is 4' from a very low ground area on W 17th Street (flood prone due to faulty back flow preventers on the street drains) my home is old concrete block, not worth the $100 K to lift and to rebuild, estimates are $475K. I have a jumbo mortgage so paying it off to stave off the high cost of insurance is not an option, 2 kids in college. what is a person to do? I dont have a good option. apologies if this sounds like a crying session, but I have a serious decision to make. my first floor is gutted, my FEMA settlement came in about $20-25K short of what I need to be whole. Do I just restore and hope the A BFE returns? My mortgage company will likely have something to say. any advise would be much appreciated.
Dean Adams
12:57 pm on Friday, February 1, 2013
George,
The Governor has put you in the same unfortunate position as many other homeowners with his broad brush. First let me help you understand the numbers. According to your elevation certificate the existing and current FIRMs place you in a flood zone classification A-7 (which is most of Ocean City) with a BFE of +9'. What you do not mention is the elevation of your lowest floor. Look on your cert for that data. The ABFE's now place you in V-11 which means to dodge the insurance bullet you must either raise or rebuild to V-11 standards with the lowest structural member at or above NAVD +14.3 (ABFE base flood +2, datum conversion +1.3). My advice would be if your home was not substaintially damaged, wait until the pre-FIRM maps are released this summer before planning to raise as the maps may change. Although if you are on the bayfront, this is unlikely. Other options are limited, Build new to V-11 code, sell, or pay the impending high premiums as they escalate through the next 5 years. It's a tough pill to swallow but that's the reality until we get some better news.
Marlin Magnet
1:31 pm on Friday, February 1, 2013
Dean, Thank you.
my certificate indicated the top of the bottom floor is 4.5'. My property is on the Venetian Bayou. It's crazy to think that a 3' wave would come from the bay or ocean to hit my home. There are homes, bulkheads, etc that get in the way but that doesnt matter to the officials who created this mess.
Floodgate
8:14 pm on Sunday, February 3, 2013
Www.facebook.com/StopFemaNow check us out also get on our mailing list for the fight against fema ,stay informed saveourcommunity2013@gmail.com