Time to get tough with the unions. If they don't want to deal with economic reality the rest of us certainly have to. Wisconsin should be first and foremost on their minds. It really doesn't matter what they think they're entitled to if the taxpayers can't afford it.

Eric, maybe I missed the part of the article where is says the Union members think they are entitled to something??

Right - Typical thoughtless union-bashing. Keep everyone's dissappointments with their financial lot in life focused on the wrong culprits; or you can better direct your thoughts and energy correctly - at yourself and the extremely wealthy (and their political servants).

Anyone who's not a member of a union care to comment?

Let's be honest with each other shall we? If not for the unions union members wouldn't be getting the compensation they're getting (salaries, pensions and benefits). I'm not against unions per say. What I'm saying is that there are many of us can no longer afford the bill. There are gross inequities when you consider that most of use don't reach that level of compensation, have to pay for our benefits, and don't receive a pension. Yet we have to pay for those who do?

Eric, I've read this article twice now and still can not find the part you reference as to Union Members feeling entitled to something.

Wow!!! It seems that some are reading too much into this article. I too do not see the part where Union Member feel entitled. Maybe Eric can come live in EHT and pay our taxes. My house is assessed at 74,900 and I pay $3500.00 in taxes. Ocean City has THE lowest tax ratable in Cape May and Atlantic Counties. Trade homes with you Eric!!

Oh, one other thing. Union members so pay just like everybody else. They pay taxes just like every other hard working american. Their compensation is not FREE!!! They contribute and they work hard and care about the jobs they do. It gets very frustrating that all the taxpayers thinks that the union members do NOT pay and they get it all for free. We pay real estate taxes, federal taxes, state and city taxes. Hmmm, looks they they pay taxes just like everybody else and they contribute more that everybody thinks towards pensions. They pay twice, out of payroll and with the state and city taxes. Food for thought!! Stop all the blame games.

Maybe Eric would like to tell everyone he lives in a Million dollar home (assessed) home a block off the beach!! and has a tax bill of around $7500,, hmmm cheap!!

No, but the amount of complaining or as you say logic, is unbelievable. If it is so bad, sell your house and move, where you can enjoy the perils of your wisdom. I own, I have cheap taxes, I have a public works, police, fire, boardwalk and a beach, for a fraction of the cost of many of the towns in south jersey. and don't you rent out part of your home?? hmmmm

I'm sorry Eric, I believe I am working for everybody, not just you and not just me. Working is something I enjoy and owning my home and paying a mortgage is something I have earned by hard work and dedication to my job and the people I work for. I too have the water, sewer, electric, gas and other utility bill to pay. I don't blame the public workers for the hard work they do and they deserve to make a living. I am sorry there are so many people for for $8.00 an hour. I know that it is hard to find a good paying job but sometimes you have to start and the bottom. I know I started only making minimum wage and I worked 2 jobs to raise by son by myself. I didn't ask anybody for a pity party, I worked hard and I still do. There are also plenty of people getting ss disability and welfare that we ALL pay for. It's how this great nation works.

I didn't mean to imply you were looking for a pity party, sorry if you misunderstood me. I too work with some people who make minimum wage, it's a shame. But, didn't we all have to start somewhere and work our way up. We all don't start out making a decent wage.

Eric, again, you are misinformed or not understanding of the goverment employee. I have worked in the private and public sector. I "earned a fair wage", not great but fair. You live in a town that is a Billion dollar a year business and affords you the ability to have LOW taxes and a property that most dream of. I am thankful, I have payed the high taxes and am thankful for the way our goverment has kept thing in check. You dont have to go far to see what others are paying, your million dollar home would be paying close to 30,000, let me say that again 30,000 dollars, in TAXES!!!! Think about it. How much do you get in rent, I bet it pays your taxes. I dont have a renter.

Oh and I forgot to add, I did some research recently and ocean city public employees are not 40% over other municipalities. They are fair and within market value. In most case below market.

Eric's initial comment of time to get tough on the Unions is accurate. Unions only serve to keep bad to worthless employees employeed and the pay rate of ggod employees lower than it should be. They have lost their way, and as far as entitlement goes, you can see the sense of entitlement in JM's comment that police and fire took a 0%increase in 2012. Took? Why should they recieve anything? Raises should be awarded on skill, ability, performance and attitude, not based on the passage of another year. Disgusting

40% more than other municipalities? where are these statistics? please, amuse me.

Dubert, raises given based on skill, ability and performance? and who would be the person to decide these factors and hand out the raises? see how well that goes over, every hear of favoritism? cronyism?

Eric-do you forget Gov. Whitman raiding the pension funds then telling towns that they do not have to make their contributions? OC has the cheapest taxes for the most services then surrounding towns (EHT, SP, SIC and Avalon have almost entirely all volunteer Fire/Rescue Dept) what about when all the realtors and contractors who were making all that money buying houses and turning them into duplexes. public service is great in OC and our public workers are compensated fairly for it... you get what you pay for... if you have a million dollar home you are going to pay that in taxes... you think that is too much down size to a condo or better yet move... maybe we can hire those fire companies in Colorado that are private and only put fires out in homes that paid for their service, i'm sure Blackwater would bid on a security contract and then we can get a contractor to cover public works... remember you get what you pay for!

Eric, how do you come to the conclusion that you pay more than it's worth? I think you need to stop portraying your opniona as fact. or, show me the numbers and facts. I hope you can find it in your time to respond with this information. thank you.

I'm a non-union person, self-employed, doing pretty well, and live and pay property taxes here. From my point of view, the unions have done an excellent job in negotiating contracts over the years. If you don't like the outcomes, then you should more properly direct your grievances at the party representing you in the contract negotiations: the administration (and then council who must approve the deals). Unions and the city are supposed to enter the negotiation seeking the best deal for their constituencies. I bet the unions do. Not sure the city does; and if not that is likely attributable to politicians seeking (electoral) reward from union members and their family and friends. Regardless of the motives, congrats to the unions. I am happy that they earn a solid middle class income, that they and their families have good health insurance, and am just as happy to contribute to both. I reserve my frustration for the dynamics that weaken and shrink the middle class, not strengthen it.

Ok I did some research. Here's some numbers from the Bureau of Labor Statistics. I could only compare OC with Vineland / Millville / Bridgeton. They don't list statistics for every township / munciplaity. Unfortunately they don't list all catergories for every municipality / township either. These are all means.

OCNJ

Mid & high school teachers $65,000
School administration $116,000
Police department (admin) $103,500
Police department patrol $ 73,500

Vineland / Millville / Bridgeton

Mid and high school teacher $63,000 to $65,000
School administration $99,900
Police (patrol) $72,000
Firefighter $61,000

I can't interpret these numbers. They are what they are. The median income for teachers wasn't available so I don't know how MVB stacks up to $90,000. It would have been nice to see the mean salary for firefighters in OC but that wasn't available either. It has been widely reported as around $100,000.

Eric, you have still NOT provided the facts behind your statement that Ocean City pays 40% more than other communities, I truly hope you are not just saying that because thats what someone else said once. if so, are you aware that I invented the internet, and you can believe everything you read on it? Please, provide your facts behind YOUR statements. stop dancing around the issue.

Sam, its not worth it, he's been on this soap box for years and continues to compare Ocean City to the middle of no where. We are a unique town and really dont compare to the national medium and he doesnt get it. He just wants to enjoy his ocean view and complain about it. Or, he could sell his million dollar (assessed) home, probably get 1.5 mill cash, move to Tennessee, on a lake, in a mansion, lots of acres, and prepay his taxes for the next 10 years, with cash in the bank. NOPE, keep's complaining about how HIGH his (low)taxes really are and the way its handled. You know, Clean streets, clean beach, paid police and fire and some of the best weather you could ask for. Not that we pay taxes for weather.

Yes, Eric, you are so right, "my bad" ,,,Ocean City is just like Vineland, Millville and BRIDGETON!!! Dude, now research how much they pay in taxes!!!

Eric, I believe your in the service industry?? Right? If you worked at a much slower establishment, Do you deserve less pay for your services. Would you accept a lower amount of pay, for your time? If the same business accross the bridge does twice as much work or not, would you accept a lower wage scale?

Well stated Sam - and absolutely correct. I'm non-union too but know enough economics and american history to know that collective bargaining is what built the middle class and that, as much as anything else, is what made America great.

You also forgot that the OC fireman work a 56 hr workweek and most others especially around here work a 42 hr workweek that has also been said before.

You know what? I'm out of this argument. No one seems to give a rip about anyone else. I get it already. You're in the union. Its all about YOU. #%#^ everyone else and if they can't afford it they can move. I'd be defensive too if I were in your shoes.

I must have missed the brainwashing session where they convinced everyone that we have such superior services because we pay more for them. I witnessed enough of the manuevering and fear tactics over attempts to bring spending under control in the fire department. It was brave thing for Hartzell and Ping to attempt. They're certainly astute enough politically to know the risk of taking on a union.

I was sympathetic at one point. My suggestion was that the fire department be given a target and free reign to come up with their own way fo meeting that objective. I understand its like a brotherhood and the first and foremost directive is to protect your turf and each other. Keep it up. As long as this City can come up with the funds to maintain that level of spending you'll suceed. But at some point unless this economy turns around and property values go back up it will come tumbling down. The hard chioces will HAVE to be made as they were in Wisconsin. That is the reality.

I've heard it all before ... how you put your lives on the line, how you work a lot of hours. But you get to go home. You get to see your wife and family. No one is trying to kill you. You can assume today won't be the last day of your life. You do get time off. What are our troops paid for making their sacrifice?.

I'm ticked now for taking all the heat I had to take for challenging the unions. I knew it was coming. You did make a concession in that the pay increase over the next 3 years is modest. The problem is we're paying too many people too much and have been for too long. It's not just the extra $40,000 in salaries per fire fighter (compared to the average) but the cost of the pensions based on that income.

I apprediate what you guys do. I really do. I wish it began and ended there.

Eric - Assuming the people posting in favor of good compensation and also in support of unions are all union members and responding to their points based on that assumption is wrong in two important ways: 1. Not all of them are in unions and 2. The merits of the points should be what counts, not the motive behind them. And while I'm at it; you say in an earlier post that it is inequitable (I interpret that to mean that you think it is unfair) that some taxpayers are paying toward public worker compensation packages that are greater than the taxpayers make. Assuming that this is actually unfair (I do not think it is at all), how would you remedy that scenario? You don't have to think too hard about it to see that it is, in reality, impossible to make that equitable using your standard...And, finally, you cannot establish a solid rational basis for your complaint about our public workers' compensation unless you can identify legitimately comparable jobs (duties, geography, population served, etc) and you can establish that those comparables have a sound fiscal basis. Good luck with that. So, we are left with the rates being determined by what the market will bare. Our negotiation outcomes have born that out as is proven by them being consitent over the years.

average median firefighter salary for Ocean City firefighter is 46,052.00 national average median is 41,969.00

HE WHO MAKES A BEAST OF HIMSELF, GETS RID OF THE PAIN OF BEING A MAN.....Eric, I think you need to buy some goldfish son

In one year, a firefighter on the 56-hour work week schedule works 728 hours above the number worked by a 40-hour employee. If applied to a twenty-five-year career, the 56-hour employee will have worked an additional 8.75 years, or the equivalent of 33.75 40-hour/week years.

No interest in getting in the middle of this except for the continued mistakes regarding taxes in OCNJ .... they are in fact quite high as are all the taxes in NJ. everyone generally forgets our assessments are incredibly high , so the rate becomes secondary . LOTS of our beachfront owners paying 25-30K per year, with no children to educate for the vast majority.

For what we pay the streets are awful and the town infrastructure is a mess. Yet , the beauty of a beach town makes it hard to beat.