BYOB Proponents: Don't Base Your Vote on 'Myths'
Supporters of the May 8 ballot question hold a public information session on April 18.
Photos
About 40 people gathered Wednesday night at the Chatterbox Restaurant for an information session about the "Bring Your Own Bottle" (BYOB) initiative in Ocean City.
The event was sponsored by the Friends of Shop, Dine and Play in Ocean City, the political committee supporting the idea of bringing BYOB to Ocean City.
In a low-key presentation, the event organizers said they respect everybody's right to have their own opinion on the issue, but that they wanted to make sure everybody's decision on the May 8 ballot question is based on good information.
"There are a lot of myths going around that we're hoping to dispel," said Bill McGinnity, owner of Cousin's Restaurant and an organizer of the BYOB petition drive.
Jeff Sutherland, an Ocean City resident and attorney representing the BYOB petitioners, provided legal information related to some of the "myths":
- The proposed BYOB ordinance will be challenged in court because it excludes Boardwalk restaurants: Sutherland said there is case law to support a municipality's right to define where BYOB will be permitted. "This statutorily reserved right cannot be understood ... to require a municipality to ban BYOB in all or none of its unlicensed premises," the state Appellate Division writes in a recent decision (Club 35 vs. Sayreville). "The statutory language does not indicate any intention on the part of the Legislature to require a municipality to treat all unlicensed premises in the same way. ... It is more likely that the Legislature intended each municipality to make rational distinctions relevant to local conditions and the welfare of its inhabitants."
- The proposed BYOB ordinance cannot be enforced: Sutherland said restaurant owners can refuse service to anybody and that state law says, "A person who violates any provision of this act is a disorderly person" subject to the same penalties as any other disorderly person.
- The proposed BYOB ordinance would hurt restaurants because of slow table turnover in the busy summer months: Sutherland said individual restaurant owners could legally choose to allow BYOB only in the off-season or not at all.
- The proposed BYOB ordinance includes no limits on the amount of alcohol that can be consumed: McGinnity said a bill is in the works in the state General Assembly to allow a municipality to set limits. He said towns throughout the state face the same issue.
- Deed restrictions prohibit the consumption of alcohol: Sutherland said Ocean City's common deed restrictions (unenforceable anyway since the 1960s) prohibited only the manufacture and sale of alcohol. Drinking on the beach was permitted until the 1950s, and BYOB was prohibited only in 1984.
McGinnity opened the sessions with a brief outline of the group's mission "to strengthen the economy, strengthen the downtown and extend the season."
"We want to give visitors a chance to stay on the island," he said.
The audience appeared largely sympathetic to the BYOB cause during a question-and-answer session.
Asked about the absence of lawn signs to match the growing number of "No BYOB" signs, McGinnity said the group has no plans to distribute signs.
"Those signs aren't going to answer any questions for you," he said.
Ocean City resident Joanne Bernardini asked attendees to imagine summer nights with cars filled with two to four adults driving out of town for dinner over the four bridges leaving Ocean City. She suggested each carload might spend $100 to $200 somewhere else.
"It's something to think about when people ask, 'What's the economic impact?' "
Other residents pointed out Ocean City's reputation as a very wet dry town — with packaged goods delivery service seven days a week from off-island liquor stores, "private parties" at Ocean City businesses sometimes in full view through storefront windows and spotty enforcement of public drinking from open containers.
Ocean City resident Marie Hayes asked if the group had checked with police chiefs from other towns that have recently approved BYOB to see if police calls spiked.
While she didn't get a direct answer about calls to police departments, McGinnity pointed out calls to different city officials and business owners in other BYOB towns.
He said the mayor of Collingswood (who owns a home in Ocean City) said BYOB helped the overall character of the town. Instead of continuing to attract kids who wanted to make trouble, it brought in people who wanted to dine.
The session ended after about two hours and a plea to encourage Ocean City residents to get out and vote on May 8.
Similar information sessions are scheduled for April 25 and May 2. See detail.
An information forum presented by the political committee on the other side of the ballot question, the Committee to Preserve Ocean City, is scheduled for 7 p.m. tonight (April 19) at the Ocean City Free Public Library.
In This article
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The Chatterbox Restaurant
500 E 9th St, Ocean City, NJ -
Cousin's Restaurant
104 Asbury Ave, Ocean City, NJ -
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Ocean City Free Public Library
1735 Simpson Ave, Ocean City, NJ
Eleanor
12:45 pm on Thursday, April 19, 2012
When you untangle the legal lingo there is still not anything to prohibit a boardwalk restaurant from filing a 'restraint of trade' suit which may be a federal action. And once a suit is filed it has to be answered, which costs money. Even if it is 'likely' the legislature intended for every city to evaluate its decision based on local conditions and welfare it does not mean that this can be arbitrary - the city has to give evidence that allowing BYOB on the boardwalk would be damaging to local welfare. And if it is only a matter of enjoying a bottle of wine in a restaurant what could possibly be 'damaging'? It is only the possibility of drunkenness on the family-centered boardwalk that might cause a ban and if that is the reason, then they are basically admitting that with BYOB comes the possibility of drunkenness.
Duffer
12:47 pm on Thursday, April 19, 2012
Some rally. What did they have....a dozen people in the room?
Eleanor
1:40 pm on Thursday, April 19, 2012
I had on a local radio station this morning that was talking about BYOB and an Ocean City caller called in and said that he knew of one of the restaurants that are for BYOB wants to sell and has an offer that hinges on the city passing BYOB. Is this true? The host did not seem like he wanted the caller to name the restaurant so he didn't. Is this true?
david hayes
5:39 pm on Thursday, April 19, 2012
"There are a lot of myths going around that we're hoping to dispel,"- How about the myth that BYOB will be in any way favorable to Ocean City as a whole? The best way we can dispel this myth being pushed by a handful of desperate business owners is to to resoundingly defeat this horrible idea at the polls! And I love McGinnity's display of legal expertise- "a bill is in the works in the state General Assembly to allow a municipality to set limits." So we should vote for a repugnant and destructive ordinance because it maybe, might be amended some day? That's typical of their entire argument... Kind of like the food at their restaurants- half-baked!
Paul Del Borrello
11:43 am on Friday, April 20, 2012
We need the "Yes Signs" for the residents who are in favor. Driving around town it appears most people do not want it .
Ellen
11:44 am on Friday, April 20, 2012
But we already knew this information. Where was the powerful new myth eye-opener that would change the minds of No-BYOB'ers? I thought it interesting that restaurant owners can opt to allow BYOB off season only if they choose but what is that really going to produce. I think everyone, pro and con, has lost sight for the initial reason for the BYOB vote. It was to revitalize downtown. It seems to me that now it's all about winning. Each side wants to win for the sake of winning because BYOB or No BYOB isn’t going to change the future of downtown. I, for one, cannot wait for May 8th to be over with because then we can start focusing on financially sound ideas that will really pump some life into downtown and drive shoppers into our local stores.
Al Czervik
5:39 pm on Thursday, April 19, 2012
They would have had more people, but BYOB wasn't allowed
vic
8:30 am on Friday, April 20, 2012
i'm taking names. my conscience won't allow me to spend my money at establishments that are attempting to change my way of life. there are enough restaurants in ocean city opposed to byob that i can patronize and feel good about it.
david hayes
3:44 pm on Friday, April 20, 2012
Great comment Vic! Many people in OC think the same wasy you do... We have talked to many tourists who want to know which restaurant support BYOB so that they will not go there... Yes it's their democratic right to petition for BYOB, but they may find there's a cost to their actions.
Katy Cardwell
5:09 pm on Friday, April 20, 2012
Change your way of life??? Just how are they going to do that? I think that statement is extreme. Simply choose not to patronize a BYOB restaurant. You have demonized responsible alcohol consumption. Many other towns that allow BYOB enjoy low crime rates; frankly, I think it is pleasant and generally quite civilized to enjoy a bottle of wine with dinner. I have never once seen public drunkenness in a BYOB establishment and I have frequented many. People go to a bar to get drunk, not a BYOB restaurant. Your statements reflect a person responding in fear, as if Ocean City will become Sodom and Gomorrah.
Nicole Foxman
10:09 am on Friday, April 20, 2012
I actually don't understand any of this. Is Avalon a horrible place because they allow liquor? How about Long Beach Island? Is there some sort of underlying element in Ocean City that I am not aware of poised to run havoc in the community as soon as beer or wine are brought into restaurants?
JustinOC
12:29 pm on Friday, April 20, 2012
How are the amusement parks in Avalon? Stone Harbor? That's right they don't have them. My point is that Avalon and Stone Harbor are great places. I find it funny that people want to compare us to Avalon, when really they should be comparing us to Wildwood or Seaside Heights. That is what happens when you introduce Alcohol into a resort community.
Eric Sauder
9:03 pm on Friday, April 20, 2012
Why would you compare Ocean City to either one? We're talking BYOB here, not liquor sales, bars and clubs. You would insinuate that BYOB would turn Ocean City into another Wildwood as opposed to another Avalon because it suits your purpose to do so. There is NO rational basis for such a claim.
I went to your anti-BYOB meeting looking for the facts your promised, and all I found was more fear mongering , more unsubstantiated and uncorrelated claims, and leaps of illogic. I hope we're not all as stupid as you think we are.
Eric Sauder
9:06 pm on Friday, April 20, 2012
Sorry Nicole. My comment wasn't aimed at you but at OCNJ. Your point is a very good one.
NoBYOB
11:56 am on Saturday, April 21, 2012
Eric,
On almost everyone of the slides there was something called a "Source." Some examples are "CNN Money," "Coastal Living," "State of New Jersey Department of Community Affairs 2001-2011," "Ocean City, NJ 2007 Market Survey," "US Department of Commerce," "FreeDemographics.com, Based on the 2010 U.S. Census Data," "The Philadelphia Inquire," "The Record." Which specific facts do you feel we "unsubstantiated and uncorrelated"? Please do not use blanket statements, please be specific and I can clarify the source for you. Or is it the sources that you didn't like? Which ones? Or is the fact that you are wrong that you don't like? (Sorry can't help you there)
Side Note: All of the sources quoted above were literally just copied and pasted from our power point presentation that we used on Thursday night.
Eric Sauder
12:07 pm on Saturday, April 21, 2012
Alright, lets start with a simple one. The survey that was conducted, was it specific to BYOB? I don't know what the questions were much less than the answers. If by "dry town" people assumed no bars or clubs, I do believe they would state that Ocean City is a better place without them (as would I). I didn't see any evidence for the insinuation that property values are higher in Ocean City, or that demand for real estate is greater in Ocean City because it is a "dry town". Can you provide such evidence? On the surface I see no correlation.
byobmyth
12:09 pm on Saturday, April 21, 2012
nobyob, anyone can get a source to quote something. "I think BYOB will help OC, because two restaurants will do better because of it" there, I just quoted myself as a source. OC hangs onto the Greatest Family resort, which was 6 or 7 years ago. Come on, we all know BYOB won't pass, and again, it will not help for the reasons these people think it will. Now wanting a glass of wine with dinner is really not going to ruing the family resort. No less than the deaths at Gillian's water park and amusement park have prevented them from continuing to turn a profit on unsafe rides.
Eric Sauder
12:28 pm on Saturday, April 21, 2012
Maybe I'm just being lazy but since you referred to the survey I assume you would know the questions (without my going to the trouble to look it up?)
Eric Sauder
12:44 pm on Saturday, April 21, 2012
Poor Nicole. She really stirred up a hornets nest.
Ocean City has been successful in part because it has a reputaion as being a family resort. That's good. Where you're losing me is how it will be any less of a family resort or any less successful with BYOB. Let's be honest with each other. Most people who live and vacation here consume alcohol (don't you think?) To maintain that BYOB will drive people away? I don't think so.
Eric Sauder
2:21 pm on Saturday, April 21, 2012
noBYOB must be busy.
NoBYOB
3:01 pm on Saturday, April 21, 2012
Eric,
I sure am busy, actually I am away this weekend. I really wish you had come into our meeting with more of an open mind and actually listened to some of the facts. But to answer your questions, although I am pretty sure you have already made up your mind.
"The survey that was conducted, was it specific to BYOB?" No it was not, participants were ask a series of question. The survey was quite extensive, one of the questions that we highlighted in the presentation asked the respondents that associated Ocean City as "America's Greatest Family Resort" (which by the way a majority of people did) Why? Among the Internal Audience (Current Residents, Second Homeowners, Business owners) the survey said and I quote from the survey "Most common reasons cited include family focus and alcohol-free"...and among the External Audience (Visitors) and again I quote from the actual survey, "The most common reasons for associating Ocean City with this phrase (idea) is that it is family focused and Ocean City, NJ’s alcohol policy"
The second part of your question will be my next post running out of space. Just give me a minute to finish it up.
Eric Sauder
3:13 pm on Saturday, April 21, 2012
Thank you. So it was not a referendum on BYOB. (I didn't think it was).
NoBYOB
3:14 pm on Saturday, April 21, 2012
AS PROMISED PART 2...With regards to your question about property values, what you saw was an apples to apples comparison of New Jersey resort towns. These are towns that have a boardwalk, beach and amusements (rides, shops, etc), a town did not make the cut if they didn't if it didn't have all 3. In the entire state there are 7 that meet this criteria. They were Asbury Park, Keansburg, Point Pleasant, Atlantic City, Wildwood, Seaside Heights & Ocean City. Now some of those cities are bigger and some are smaller as far an amount of land, so we figure to be fair, we would break it down to the price per square foot. We got the square mile data from the US Census Bureau converted the data into square feet, because people can better conceptualize a square foot. We then got the data from the State of New Jersey Department of Community Affairs 2011 tax abstract and dived the Net Taxable Value of Land & Improvements by the number of square feet. The result was that Ocean City has the highest value per sqft out the seaside resort towns as defined by my apples to apples comparison; we are also the only one that does not allow the public consumption of alcohol. Now this is where you say something like “that has nothing to do with it.” Then my question is what other factor am I missing? Why are people willing to pay more for Ocean City dirt than any other Seaside Resort? What do we have that they don’t? What do they have that we don’t?
Eric Sauder
3:14 pm on Saturday, April 21, 2012
I had my bias coming in (I admit) but I was there to listen to the facts.
Eric Sauder
3:16 pm on Saturday, April 21, 2012
Alcohol free to me means no bars, liquor stores, or clubs.
Eric Sauder
3:25 pm on Saturday, April 21, 2012
There are so many things that distinguish Ocean City from the other shore towns you mentioned. I would agree with you that one of the most important is the focus on the family. You propbably didn't get the chance to read my other posts. I just don't see where BYOB will tarnish that image, or make it any less succesfull as a family resort, especially in light of the fact that most of the people who vacaton or live here consume alcohol.
I appreciate your comments and the thought that went into them. So thanks for your response :)
Eric Sauder
3:28 pm on Saturday, April 21, 2012
I do have to try to get something done today so I'm gonna go outside before it rains. I'll come back to it later.
Ellen
11:57 am on Friday, April 20, 2012
If you look at the faces in the photos above, they already look defeated.
Eleanor
6:50 am on Saturday, April 21, 2012
Don't sell them short. They will try the next tactic the one that got the HS passed on the 3rd referendum. They will take it to the high school seniors who are 18 and old enough to vote and push them to 'get out the vote'.
Eric Sauder
8:58 am on Saturday, April 21, 2012
I don't know about that Eleanor. I didn't attend the pro-BYOB meeting but I did attend the anti-BYOB meeting and I do know THAT group is employing that tactic. They were registering everyone who came in the door and handing out mail-in ballots. If they could find a way to stuff the ballot I think they would do it. I do hope diligence will be used in validating the vote. As they well know people will do just about anything when motivated by fear.
jennifer
8:37 pm on Friday, April 20, 2012
If the Gillian family owned a restaurant, BYOB would have been passed years ago. So all this "family" "wholesome" stuff is such foolishness. This phoney baloney committe to preserve OC is a joke. Where were they when the deveopers took over? The Sunday laws were dropped cz they interfered with Business - pls this is stupid but a real shame for the restaurants just trying to survive on an unfair playing field. It is all about money in this town so everyone with all this rhetoric about family - grow up
jennifer
8:41 pm on Friday, April 20, 2012
If the Gillian family owned a restaurant, BYOB would have been passed years ago. So all this "family" "wholesome" stuff is such foolishness. This phoney baloney committe to preserve OC is a joke. Where were they when the deveopers took over? The Sunday laws were dropped cz they interfered with Business - pls this is stupid but a real shame for the restaurants just trying to survive on an unfair playing field. It is all about money in this town so everyone with all this rhetoric about family - grow up. And the amusement parks. Hope they stay on the boardwalk - look how tacky SeaIsle looks with the amusement park at the entrance. Cannot get tackier than that.
Bill McDonnell
9:55 pm on Friday, April 20, 2012
Funny jennifer how you attack the Gilliam family ..... it was a councilman in 1984 that cause the law to be past so police could charge them .... those of us uniformed locals that grew up in the greatest town in america always thought you could not drink in public... but the place called cousins (what??? same as now) .... want to break the rules but there was no legal rule so we made one ..... sorry Seems like alot of hate for some reason with alot of you ..... hard to figure why you came here??
Eleanor
6:44 am on Saturday, April 21, 2012
I agree that most of the name calling seems to come from the pro BYOB people. Is calling your neighbors names, attacking their signs, saying they are the ones who run over the bridge to drink at Crab Trap, attacking the Gillian family, Fasy and anybody else who states an opinion that is the opposite of theirs? Go back and read some of the comment boards - why are the pro BYOB people so rude and angry? It is a political decision - stick to the policy issues and the facts surrounding the ordinance.
jenny
11:13 pm on Friday, April 20, 2012
I was talking about the Sunday blue laws and though I am sure there are locals who r intelligent and informed I sure have met some who scare me with their ignorance and prejudice too. And if you don't think the Gillian family along with a few other families completely run this town then you are in a fog here in the greatest little town in America hee hee hee haw
byobmyth
9:25 am on Saturday, April 21, 2012
Rest easy Eleanor, BYOB will not pass. Frankly, I dont care either way, wont save the downtown, (at this point nothing will) and it wouldnt kill the town. OC is a 3-4 month town, deal with it. You will be bombarded with 475 pizza slices and cookie cutter duplex after duplex. Truth is most small towns are run by a select few families, so this is nothing new. They are not the problem. The year round economy is OC is terrible, and is not going to change. No new businesses can survive here. Im not talking about a donut shop or sub shop. I mean businesses vital to the economic growth of a town/city. The year round population continues to decline. The surrounding economy in cape may county is at best stagnant and most likely declining. BYOB will not save the town, getting some people on city council without personal agendas, and with sound economic backgrounds might. One last example, the downtown shopping in your pajamas, not a bad idea, terrible turnouts, not because the town is not a good town, there is no diverse shopping here. Where do you get a suit, a pair of shoes, ?
jenny
9:29 am on Saturday, April 21, 2012
All this fuss because people want to bring a bottle of wine to enjoy with dinner. All this hypocrisy from those happy to destroy acres of vital ocean City wetlands but interested in "preserving" what exactly? And no one attacked the Gillian family but in this tiny town asmall group has an inordinate amount of power. That is just reality. The signs are an eyesore and uncalled for - there is a lot of important stuff going on right now. I bet there r OC families in real financial stress and meetings are being held and money raised for ugly signs and all this wasted time and energy railing against byob. Ridiculous!
byobmyth
9:49 am on Saturday, April 21, 2012
Its not about the bottle of wine Jennifer. I really do not care either way, but the anti byob contingent has the same right to express their feelings as the pro byob. Thats the point, they have their passion and you have yours. So, you feel that those people who put the signs up can better spend their money for people in financial duress (which is the word I believe you meant to use). ? Why do they have to do that ? Those ugly signs, are they worse than the 10,000 rental and sale signs that the realtors have on every home on the island ? LOL. There is your real culprit to the demise of the traditional town, the realtors and developers, so little character in thousands of these homes now.
Parker Miller
1:39 pm on Saturday, April 21, 2012
The argument that a car load of 4 driving over the bridge costs OC $100 to $200 isn't valid. Noticing the summer crowds waiting outside the OC restaurants that serve better food indicates they don't need and can't handle additonal summer business and appear to also do a great shoulder business. Will those who insist on wine or beer with their dinner settle for lesser food quality - doubtful.
A statement was also made by the same ill informed person that BYOB hasn't brought crime to Collingswood. What does she call prostitution, a shooting, and many fights as detailed in the South Jersey Courier Post a few months ago? The oft quoted Collingswood mayor who has a summer place in OC has now led Collingswood to the point that its bonds are rated as junk bond status. So much for his BYOB indorsement.
Why not get take out from Piccini's, Voltaco's, the Island Grill, or a half dozen other outstanding OC restaurants and enjoy it at home with your bottle of wine?
Eric Sauder
2:14 pm on Saturday, April 21, 2012
If gas prices keep going up Parker that's what I'll have to do. This isn't Collingswood and it would be better (for both sides) to keep the discussion on what is best for Ocean CIty. I don't have to settle for lesser food quality. I can go accross the bay and have both.
byobmyth
2:38 pm on Saturday, April 21, 2012
Why isnt it valid ? Forget about BYOB, a car load going to sea isle, or somer spoint, easily is costing money. Just like the people coming from Somers Point to buy voltaccos is costing those businesses money. Those restaurants you mentioned in OC, are ok, they are beach fare. And maybe the parents who rented a 3,000 a week unit, have grandma down for a few days watching the kids, and they'd like to go to a place they can sit in and have wine. Which would be Somers Point, not a big deal, but that money is leaving the island.
Eric Sauder
2:18 pm on Saturday, April 21, 2012
I would advise the anti-BYOB people to save their money. I think the issue has been decided for most people and nothing is going to change their minds, no matter how much money you throw at it. It's only the people who think they can buy the result they want that believe that.
LJ
2:30 pm on Saturday, April 21, 2012
Just a quick question....What happens when the food vendors on the boardwalk start to complain that they are losing business because all of it is on the Ave where BYOB is permitted? Do we then allow consumption on the boardwalk?
Eric Sauder
3:09 pm on Saturday, April 21, 2012
The quick answer to the question is that they can start their own petition. I'm not quaking in my boots if BYOB makes it to the boardwalk. There are few dining establishments there. It was considerate of the pro-BYOB people to exclude the boardwalk (in my opinion). For that they're now getting dragged thru the coals.
The comments by the owner of Picinni were revelaing. He all but admitted that BYOB will succeed when he stated that to stay comepetitive he would have to implement BYOB too (which he claims will hurt his business because of slower turnover). Certianly I hope that is not the case, but in any event he would have the option to do whatever is best for his business.
NoBYOB
3:18 pm on Saturday, April 21, 2012
It is going to be allowed on the Boardwalk from day one is my guess. Unless someone can tell me based on and quoting the actual ordinance (which can be found at http://nobyob.com/theordinance/) how many feet away from the Boardwalk is considered off the boardwalk?
Gerry Sylvester
5:09 pm on Saturday, April 21, 2012
Let me get this straight...As long as you can carry BOXES of booze into an establishment (Flander's, Yacht Club, etc) it is OK in Ocean City. A person just cannot carry a BOTTLE in to have a glass with dinner? Do I have that right??
I love the logic behind the good people of Ocean City lol It reminds me of the absurdities of the blue laws that were finally voted out years ago. Golfing at the city owned course was ok...golfing at the miniature golf course was not. The double standard or illogical reasoning was ridiculous then as it is now.....
Parker Miller
5:37 pm on Saturday, April 21, 2012
Gerry,
It does seem contradictory, but there are differences. One is a private affair and the other is just the general public's walking in. And you can't just carry a box of booze into the Flanders or Yacht Club without preapproval and a good deal of paperwork. Permits have to be completed and approved, fees paid, and arrangements for the cases to be delivered.
jennifer
6:49 pm on Saturday, April 21, 2012
We will have to count on the next generation to move on byob. This population is entrenched in the OC fantasy of yesteryear. Funny thing is that OC was gone after the realtors and developers turned a year round community into a summer money making machine. Where was the "committee for the preservation of oc" then? Possibly participaating and lining their own pockets? It is the hypocrisy that is so hard to watch but then some people have no shame
Oc Fulltime
11:38 am on Tuesday, April 24, 2012
i can see why some of the very successful restaurant businesses in town would be so strongly opposed to BYOB--why would anyone want this type of change if that change could possibly effect their BOTTOM LINE...i know if my business was so strong and successful for so many years i would clearly and very vocally state my opposition to BYOB and throw out all kinds of scare tactics. Some of these businesses have profited very well for so long, tell me why would they want anything that could possibly change that. Are their reasons clearly for the good of this community or self motivated?? When an important issue comes to a town that can effect change to a certain group usually they would all ban together for the good of all,however, this group (restaurant business) is so far apart, makes you wonder ....Everyone seems to have an angle. I for one love my home right here in OC and have no intention to move or fight with my neighbors or turn my head on businesses in this town...no matter what is decided..Would I like to have a glass of wine with my dinner at a local establishment-Yes!
Jerry Grady
11:46 am on Tuesday, April 24, 2012
14 days till D-Day. Where's my Sam bit for the day.